What happened to the Taco, anyway?



  • As a lurker I could point to the real animosity (both in real life and online) of several long time posters which sometimes got deeply personal and too close. Probably got old and tired of having to deal with that kind of stuff eventually....



  • RJ made it pretty clear on a variety of scattered posts... But the gist was they were losing money for 18 years, time spent dealing with people for 18 years, and the recent lawsuit/copyright infringement just pushed it over the top. Someone also mentioned Cmac was about to have a kid. So seems legit that a host of different issues put a bullet in it... I'd love to know the details behind that.. What picture(s)? Did someone defame Mickey Mouse? lol... You never want Disney lawyers in your inbox...



  • "all the traffic has immensely paid off for the Supertopo guidebook enterprise as a whole"

    That would almost be funy if it weren't so absurd. "Immensely?" Regarding GUIDE BOOKS?

    My opinion: The "reason" doesn't matter. Supertopo was/is a privately owned and operated entity. They have the right to do as they wish, with or without what others deem an adequate explanation.



  • @Fear

    Indubitably. To wit I'd best flesh out the Terms of Service a bit regarding posting of copyrighted content. I loved the freedom I enjoyed as a nomadic climbing bum and would like the forums to feel similar so the Terms are pretty lax. I don't need a lawsuit, however, so, fer' the record:

    If you are tempted to post copyrighted content: Please just don't do it!

    Note: For those who registered early the Climber Forums Terms have been updated to reflect this. Please abide. Thanks bunches ✌



  • Massaging the numbers is an age old trick. No doubt the ST Forum lost money... but, at El Cap bridge do you think the words SuperTopo would even be uttered without the forum? That handful of old books were propped up by the Forum, and that has some real value. A raucous forum gets the name out there, good or bad, and drives sales. Ya cant sell it if nobody knows about it...



  • Hard to say, Russ, and of course the forums helped. But maybe they could have gotten as much traction with a much more moderated forum, and a focus on trip reports and perhaps sponsoring a few decent bloggers/videographers.



  • @Happiegrrrl said in What happened to the Taco, anyway?:

    Hard to say, Russ, and of course the forums helped. But maybe they could have gotten as much traction with a much more moderated forum, and a focus on trip reports and perhaps sponsoring a few decent bloggers/videographers.

    I had thought of this aspect as well but then we also love the wild west so it's a balancing act. This forum does have a moderator crew, something I hope to nurture moving forward.

    I've also been pondering the notion of comp'ing/sponsoring some static blog space for some of the more word smith types but figured I'd see how things developed here a bit first.



  • @Happiegrrrl

    Nope, disagree completely. Nobody is going to talk about or discuss a sedate and polite forum. Edge and conflict get people talking and moving lips drive brands and sales



  • I am also concerned that the sheer volume of political tripe inundating their boards during the last presidential election cycle was .... like the election campaigns themselves, more than a bit over the top and they just were not willing to throw good money away on such community dividing and toxic 'chit in 2020.

    To wit... it is inevitable that Politics will rear its ugly head here. And I am okay with that. It needs to be managed a bit better, by all parties involved, so as not to descend into utter madness. Suggestions welcome but initial ideas:

    1. Allocate a dedicated forum category for political discussions so folks more interested in craggin' rather than mental masturbation don't have to suffer through it.

    2. I enjoy giving back as a "Parent Judge" for local high school debate teams. Parent judges typically bring strong personal views to the table and known for too often exhibiting strong bias in their judging. I live in a very conservative state where the the social pressure to conform is strong. Hence, those arguing the "Liberal" side of any issue are often at a disadvantage. But wait! What about other judges? Well, those tend to be college level debaters from local college debate teams. These folks know their stuff to the extent that they are paid stipends. And it is much more likely they sport a more liberal outlook. They're also going to do a better job of slicing and dicing your arguments based on the merit of their logic, etc. Hence, it is no wonder high school debate competitors get real good at reading judges and adapting their tactics accordingly!! Surprisingly, during the course of the season I gained some credibility as a parent judge. I did not know jack about debate but I was objective. More so than the paid college debater judges, who tend to lean liberal, as per conversations overheard. I shall endeavor to follow suit here. Tough audience though...

    tl;dr-- Cutting to the chase... I have a hair brained idea to maybe recruit a couple of said folks as moderators for the political stuff. Objective would be to have lively, rousing discussions based on a "Claim, Warrant, Impact" model.

    Thoughts?



  • A political category might be nice. It might really help to have a 2 post a day limit there(just in politics) or something if that's possible to do. That might prevent runaway craziness/volume of the echo chambers there.



  • @Fear said in What happened to the Taco, anyway?:

    A political category might be nice. It might really help to have a 2 post a day limit there(just in politics) or something if that's possible to do. That might prevent runaway craziness/volume of the echo chambers there.

    "Politics" sub forum category now available. I prefer to start loose and tighten the reins only as needed. Let us hope I do not have to.



  • I suspect that they follow summitpost business model.
    Summitpost forum is practically dead with zero traffic.
    However a content that was created by earlier users can be easily found by search engines and still drive user traffic thus making some money.
    It's plausible that summitpost has (small) positive cash flow.
    It's also plausible that Supertopo with archived forum and archived trip reports can have positive cash flow with zero expenses on forum support.



  • @Yury I agree Yury and Russ.
    I also believe ST will probably make more money now with archival visits.



  • @MisterE I agree E.



  • ^^^
    "umfortunate" I like that word.



  • I posted on ST from Nov. 2008 to the end & hosted a lot of photos there. The photos ranged from bunches of my own, to ads & articles from long-gone climbing magazines, 1950's cartoons, & recent political cartoons. Although my historical thread output was way short of Steve Grossman's, I am proud of the group participation in my Royal Robbins Mountain Paraphernalia, Chouinard Carabiner Timeline & Identification, & my lament for a vanished French cigarette brand, Gauloises, Don Whillians, the Frogs & Climbing history threads.
    http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1410426/Gauloises-Don-Whillans-the-Frogs-and-Climbing-History.

    When my photos all vanished a few weeks before the end of ST, I was favored with an email from RJ, which explained I had been punished because I posted copyrighted photos & he showed examples. When I emailed him & Chris back that I would be glad to mend my ways & delete the most offensive photos, but that my important historical threads were now ruined & that was bad for Supertopo. RJ emailed me back that they had saved all my photos, & were willing to give them back to me, but please don't tell anyone that fact.

    I emailed back to RJ & Chris that I already had all those photos & made another plea to save the historical threads & offered again to cooperate. I have not heard back.

    When they explained how scared they were of the pending lawsuit, I realized that for them, saving their financial asses was a much greater priority than saving Supertopo. That's too bad for all of us. I am still perplexed that they would not consider selling Supertopo. They must have been "real-skeered." It's now difficult for me to respect them.



  • @FritzRay said in What happened to the Taco, anyway?:

    I posted on ST from Nov. 2008 to the end & hosted a lot of photos there. The photos ranged from bunches of my own, to ads & articles from long-gone climbing magazines, 1950's cartoons, & recent political cartoons. Although my historical thread output was way short of Steve Grossman's, I am proud of the group participation in my Royal Robbins Mountain Paraphernalia, Chouinard Carabiner Timeline & Identification, & my lament for a vanished French cigarette brand, Gauloises, Don Whillians, the Frogs & Climbing history threads.
    http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1410426/Gauloises-Don-Whillans-the-Frogs-and-Climbing-History.

    When my photos all vanished a few weeks before the end of ST, I was favored with an email from RJ, which explained I had been punished because I posted copyrighted photos & he showed examples. When I emailed him & Chris back that I would be glad to mend my ways & delete the most offensive photos, but that my important historical threads were now ruined & that was bad for Supertopo. RJ emailed me back that they had saved all my photos, & were willing to give them back to me, but please don't tell anyone that fact.

    I emailed back to RJ & Chris that I already had all those photos & made another plea to save the historical threads & offered again to cooperate. I have not heard back.

    When they explained how scared they were of the pending lawsuit, I realized that for them, saving their financial asses was a much greater priority than saving Supertopo. That's too bad for all of us. I am still perplexed that they would not consider selling Supertopo. They must have been "real-skeered." It's now difficult for me to respect them.

    Chris never really disclosed what went down; there was innuendo, but no full disclosure. RJ was a mouth piece. Never saw him post a climbing thread. We will never know. I have respect for CMac, none for RJ.



  • Moved some posts that were off topic for this thread to more appropriate threads (kitty and intro). Let us endeavor to have a bit of respect for the OP who started this topic. For example, they may have placed a 'watch' on this thread to be alerted to new replies and off topic banter kind of defeats their value, eh?

    Thank you. 🐕



  • @FritzRay

    From experience, being involved in a lawsuit is to be avoided as much as is humanely possible.



  • @FritzRay said in What happened to the Taco, anyway?:

    I realized that for them, saving their financial asses was a much greater priority than saving Supertopo.

    I think that'd be true for anyone on the receiving end of rabid litigation involving what is already a financial drain....

    The other huge factor is time. Even fighting completely inane/baseless lawsuits consumes vast quantities of time.


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