Anything interesting related to philosophy, mind, spirituality, religion, science, mathematics, etc.

  • hey there say, ... i don't have much to add here--as no cold chills stuff... but i do remember this, from each time, at the beach...

    walking through the 'push of the tide' against ones calves... at santa cruz... doing simply nothing but walking, and letting the waves 'move one' , doing their thing (meaning they were not doing MY thing, and flowing with me) ... well:

    it made me feel the water, in a more spiritual sense... like feeling one, with creatiion, but in a different way, yet, connected... kind of when the WIND blows on and about one (well, if one is not 'freezing cold' and distracted by trying to keep warm, etc) ...

    you just (well, me) just feel like one with in spirit, as part of the whole spectrum of what creator (for me, god) made...
    you can't get this feeling, too much by swimming, as, you are making an effort, to it...
    the other examples, well-- you are just THERE in the midst of it...

    (this is excluding those 'real cold chills' events, obviously... however, there is that 'inner soft chill glow' (hee hee, for want of better words) ... ) ...
    another example:
    just simply floating in a pool of water, or river, on a floater thing, doing nothing but LET the water do its thing...

    all of these, things... well-- you can even 'feel them later' , when closing your eyes to sleep at night...
    they 'had seeped, --instead of zaped-- down INTO the spiritual part of you...
    (as well as leaving a brain implant, in/on your body, as well--one that the brain, remembers, later, as well, too) ...


  • @zBrown , hey there say, zBrown... happy good eve to you... yeah, i can see that... many times, too, one loses track of time... (even in my examples, below-- which i forgot to mention, as the time... )...
    thanks for sharing...

    listening to certain types of music in kind of 'man's creation' that can do similar, too.. but,
    it is 'imitation' as to nature... but NOT imitaion, as to what is behind the 'reason/caculations' of how and why musical notes and timing and union, make UP music, in the first place...

  • No chills to report, but I felt, really felt, pure evil as I walked alone along the hallways and grounds of Dachau.

  • Pure evil. Is Satan an actual physical being, or a metaphorical scapegoat? Did you know that Lucifer was the name given to Nebuchadnezzar by the Hebrews as an insult: Oh him? he thinks he brings the dawn's light to Earth! During the rise of Christianity somehow Lucifer became a synonym for Satan.

    Enjoyed the TV show with Tom Ellis. Final season coming to Netflix.

  • Looks dead, here. ☠

  • @jgill

    There are a lot of lurkers out there. Give it time. Me, not a particularly deep thinker. I'm happy to know what's for dinner.

  • I hope I have time and health to contribute here on regular basis.

    I achieved many breake throughs while in flow. Since I was a child, I've been able to switch my mind 100% inward. In that state, even if somebody calls my name, I don't hear it (my grandson is that way). It does not happen to me as often as it used to be, unfortunately.

    Very often after solving a really hard problem, I can't recall my reasoning. My boss attributed my successes to intuition, but it's more than that. It's like thinking with abstract pictures. My eyes are open, but I don't see the surroundings.

    Love that feeling.

    Got to go, more later.

  • @Moosedrool , hey there say... wow, happy to see you here... loved seeing your trip , from facebook... wow, and wow, again... hugs the you and wife... 🙂 very kind of you to share all those photos! hard work, to load them up, i know! happy good eve, to you! (hee hee, well, if you are still awake, that is) 🙂

  • ☠

  • Hi jgill,

    I hope you are doing well and glad to see your thread.

    Re: jlong and nothingness

    It seems early animals must have had a feel or in some sense understood nothingness as when the prey was GONE there just was nothing more to eat so move on.

    I searched for goneness and found the word was in use and employed by some Buddhist writers. Here is one of those links:

  • Dingus, good to hear from you. Brings back good memories from the Needles.

    Largo spent many years in Zen meditation, and spoke of the astounding experience of no-thingness and empty awareness. I would argue that the latter was only possible if one were aware of it, but that line of thought never impressed him, and he would say one had to have the experience to "comprehend" it, Zen being full of paradoxes. Too bad he hasn't chimed in here; I miss his philosophical contributions.

    👋 (one hand clapping)

  • I was very into zen in my martial arts days.. certainly when you achieve an empty mind state you can out perform someone (yourself) who has to make conscious decisions on each action... I am not certain that it would be possible to onsight solo rock anywhere near your limit in a true state of Mushin . fighting is so much different. mushin or empty mind is really the product of a shit ton of practice. the only way to really get there on a hard climb is to practice the shit out of the climb then it becomes just like a kata that you can perform without conscious thought. you can fight without conscious thought because you become part of your opponent and any number of moves will work in most situations as long as you have those moves completely wired. Rock climbing hard is so beta specific that INMOP the only way to get there is to practice the climb the same way you would a kata until you have it wired at which point you can float up it in a state of mushin. try to onsight float up it in a state of Mushin if it is at or near your limit and you will pop off like ripe fruit...

  • @NickG
    I remember reading something Steve House wrote about this. Don't remember the article, and can't provide a link, but I think it was in his discussion of a solo ascent of K7 that he addressed the issue of no-mind vs empty-mind.

    As I remember it, he stressed that no-mind was a failure waiting to happen, whereas empty-mind was a state that enabled him to deal with what needed to be dealt with.

    But this is a ten-year-old memory, so don't shoot me if I got something wrong. All I can say from my own perspective is that, while not a practitioner of any of that transcendental shit, going empty-mind has saved my ass more than once.

  • you can totally do the mushin thing on ice simply because it is not as sequence / beta intensive as hard rock. hard rock you have to consciously learn the sequences before you can do them with an empty mind.

  • I first felt the seemingly effortless flow in gymnastics in the 1950s, even though I wasn't very good. Over the years that became a strong influence in my climbing. But when I would occasionally expound on its virtues to other climbers their eyes would roll. How could something so mystical compare with first ascents? 😵

  • Ive Felt it Climbing, esp OW, but also trail running and skiing, esp skate

  • Does the Zen master know more than Socrates ever knew? Or is there no equivalence?

  • I don't know if it was discussed in another thread, but related to mathematics, I always found so-called "sacred" geometry to be very interesting.

    Also, not sure if any of you guys are familiar with the Mandelbrot set? Way cool stuff!

  • @DingusMcgee said in Anything interesting related to philosophy, mind, spirituality, religion, science, mathematics, etc.:

    Does the Zen master know more than Socrates ever knew? Or is there no equivalence?

    Yeah, well, Socrates was just a boulderer.

    This is not some random guy spewing on the internet. I have proof.

    Seriously. The late, great climber and writer/poet/musician John Ewbank knew Socrates and his crew really well, and, once back in the present, wrote the definitive history of the man. In the form of the play "Bouldering With Socrates."

    He sent it to me before he died, and if any of you signal interest, I'll post it. LIkewise, if you want, I'll post Ewbank's definitive history of life, climbing, and the universe ("Ironmongers of the Dreamtime"}.

    "Bouldering With Socrates" is fun, but "Ironmongers" is one of the best pieces of climbing writing ever.

  • Philosophy

    The Mandelbrot set was only the beginning. This image is weak emergence from a mathematical program I wrote. I.e., It cannot be predicted. In a way it's a product of my subconscious.

    Please give us the play, Bouldering with Socrates . I thoroughly enjoyed our bouldering sessions together, although I didn't appreciate his polishing his teaching style on me at the time. And see? Socratic bouldering has failed to catch on in over 2,000 years. Inferior stuff.

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