seeding popular topics from the taco



  • Sorry if posting all the new topics at once is annoying anyone. I figured a good way to get more discussions going, especially climbing related stuff, would be to continue the most popular ones from the taco. I have a feeling people are more comfortable posting to a topic that already exists than starting one. The format I'm using is I'm putting the link to the dead taco page and using the "taco" tag along with whatever might also apply like "appreciation" tag or "Yosemite" tag.

    If this sounds like a good idea to anyone else, I would say lets keep it going. Go grab a link to your favorite taco discussion and restart the topic here.

    And if you happened to have posted some good stuff on the taco page and still have the photos, it would be killer if you could re-pist them here since those threads suck now that they are dead and photo-less.

    ps...
    It looks like CMac and RJ re-sorted the taco forum page so it's most posts first. It really shows that the really active topics didn't have much to do with climbing.



  • @toby Said:
    "Heh, what happened at ST should STAY at ST."

    @Smokey said in seeding popular topics from the taco:

    Sorry if posting all the new topics at once is annoying anyone. I figured a good way to get more discussions going, especially climbing related stuff, would be to continue the most popular ones from the taco. I have a feeling people are more comfortable posting to a topic that already exists than starting one. The format I'm using is I'm putting the link to the dead taco page and using the "taco" tag along with whatever might also apply like "appreciation" tag or "Yosemite" tag.

    If this sounds like a good idea to anyone else, I would say lets keep it going. Go grab a link to your favorite taco discussion and restart the topic here.

    And if you happened to have posted some good stuff on the taco page and still have the photos, it would be killer if you could re-pist them here since those threads suck now that they are dead and photo-less.

    ps...
    It looks like CMac and RJ re-sorted the taco forum page so it's most posts first. It really shows that the really active topics didn't have much to do with climbing

    To be clear I also posted this to your Stoney point thread .

    @toby Said:
    Hey mon, would you mind not posting back links to ST? It's time to let it to ride off into the sunset...

    @toby Said:
    All those links make them show up on search engines rather than the new "digital campfires". Especially since they are paying $$$ for search engine placement AND still monetizing ST threads. IOW, no longer paying the cost to host the community but damn happy to leverage their content.
    Heh, what happened at ST should STAY at ST.



  • "Toby" asked me to remove all the links I had added to Taco Threads.



  • seeding popular topics from the taco

    @Smokey, Thank you for spelling it out in your post.
    You put forth very good reasons to continue topics &
    I agree with (1) &(3) and some of (2).

    Ken/toby, who is the Site Lord & master here, has asked, for now, to not add 'hot Links' to the old no-place. I'm trying to be as supportive of this effort as I can be.

    Toby is away from things for the weekend. Please consider removing the Links,
    Save them in the "Drafts" section of your email or in "Pages" program, until you talk with "Toby"

    I also spent a bunch of hours digging up links & quotes from some of the historic threads.
    I have no argument with you. but we have no argument to use against the request of this sites owner to not link to the taco.

    I am just doing what I was asked to do. Please consider taking down the links now & if your reasons get approved you can restore them.



  • *STOP NOW
    What follows are the initial 2 posts from a "Chat"
    They ARE AS CLEAR AS CAN BE !

    toby
    Hey mon, would you mind not posting back links to ST? It's time to let it to ride off into the sunset...

    toby
    All those links make them show up on search engines rather than the new "digital campfires". Especially since they are paying $$$ for search engine placement AND still monetizing ST threads. IOW, no longer paying the cost to host the community but damn happy to leverage their content.

    Heh, what happened at ST should STAY at ST.



  • @The-Gnome Oh, good, a little repartee....finally! Here we go! 🙂



  • I'm with Gnome. I see no need to link threads here to ST, which rewards the folks who threw us out, along with our photos. Sure, I have a little nostaligia, but ST is dead & the ST owners killed it.



  • No reason the ST should die

    Else we might have to kill a mockingbird too

    IMG_1154.JPG



  • Stand tall for Billie Sol man!

    Do not diss the value of what the posters did on ST

    Estes was born January 10, 1925 to John and Lillian Estes on a farm near Clyde, Texas, one of six children. Estes never attended college but nonetheless demonstrated a natural talent for business from an early age.



  • I had put a number of hot-links here and there.

    In the "What Happened To The Taco" thread, for example,

    thats when "@toby sent me a "Chat" - That thing I posted.
    He explains it better than I can

    but Yes also what @FritzRay said,

    the they that took all our content to play a number of clicks/hits game
    riding it to fame & then off into the sunset blowing us all off
    when they could have weaponized Us to come to support them,

    I think I found 2 of the complaintants who's threats were real but
    both of those would have been easy to show had no standing due to conflicts



  • Thanks for the feedback here and on the other threads about the links. I didn't see the post where Toby talked about links to ST threads before I posted all that stuff.

    I'll give my reason for why I think it's a good thing to have the links at the top of the threads, and if you disagree we can remove them.

    Reason 1) I think it's important because of the historical nature of some of the content back at ST. Some of those posters are no longer here to repost stuff at our new home and their stuff is important to the conversation. By having that static reference easily linked you can essentially go binge watch the previous seasons before the new season airs incase you want to know what happened.

    Reason 2) Yes, links push views to ST and effect search listings, but that is functionally a dead site. They pose no real threat for viewership to RPU. People that want to contribute may go visit the ST history but they will post here. If ST gets some money from clicks, well then that's not terrible right? They did give us a free home all those years. Yes they cut us off in a pretty fucked up way. I'm not happy with that, but the way it happened was more in the nature of hapless idiots than nefarious business masterminds. The story that this was all part of CMacs master plan to deceive us climbers is a little far fetched.
    It's not like there is any new content there. I'm not advocating copying ST content here, just links that make the experience here more coherent.

    Reason 3) We need content and posters. Especially climbing content. By making the conversation as continuous as possible, it will hopefully encourage people to keep whatever momentum they had at ST moving here. That's easier if it's clear this is the new home for continuing those ST conversations. No one wants to repeat themselves (think about having to rewrite an essay when your computer crashes when it's almost done).



  • After looking though the comments in the individual threads starting to hash out the links issues there, I think we need to deal with this and maybe delete all that stuff in other places or move it here and out of the individual threads. That's why I tried to head that off and made this post here to discuss this.

    Having us discussing forum links and random stuff at the top of a thread dedicated to something else dilutes the focus of the thread and discourages people from posting climbing content that's on topic.



  • I have no respect for C. Mac and JR, nor Billie Sol Estes

    And incidentally a number of ST posters

    But I do not mind not placing links here

    Anyone who is interested knows where to find stuff



  • Smokey! As my now-passed father in law said: "No good deed goes unpunished."

    Management here does not appreciate the links to ST.

    I don't either & and I am not management.



  • @The-Gnome
    I just saw you edited your post above mine. From my understanding, any correspondence you had with Toby about links was in private messages and related to the specific posts you had made. There is a forum rules section that has no mention of generally not wanting links to ST. If that is mentioned on a public post somewhere it's not apparent (search would help here).
    I feel like Toby is going above and beyond with the whole administrative transparency thing, which I greatly appreciate. That also leads me to believe that if he had such a problem with links to ST that he would have explained his position in the public rules.

    On the topic and given the nature of the forum Toby claims to want to create, I can't see how banning links is a path that leads to his goal. How is ST substantially different from mountainproject? Since MP allows new content they are more of a competitor than ST. Are MP links banned too? What about ST route beta links, or is it just forum links? Is the idea that any other competing climbing site linking is banned, or just sites we want to spite? Where does that end? Is any of this really what the mods want to spend their time dealing with? This will just lead to frustrated users getting tired of the only posts being administrative discussions about selectively applied edicts from above.

    I agree this is Toby's show. When he rings in and explains the situation then we will know the deal and I'll change anything that needs changing. I have no reason to doubt he will continue to be as reasonable and transparent as he has been up to now and open to the conversation.



  • @FritzRay said in seeding popular topics from the taco:
    Smokey! As my now-passed father in law said: "No good deed goes unpunished."

    Management here does not appreciate the links to ST.

    I don't either & and I am not management.

    *That quote so applies to me in this case.

    Smokey, Don't shoot the messenger.



  • @Smokey said in seeding popular topics from the taco:

    Reason 1) I think it's important because of the historical nature of some of the content back at ST. Some of those posters are no longer here to repost stuff at our new home and their stuff is important to the conversation. By having that static reference easily linked you can essentially go binge watch the previous seasons before the new season airs incase you want to know what happened.
    Reason 2) Yes, links push views to ST and effect search listings, but that is functionally a dead site. They pose no real threat for viewership to RPU. People that want to contribute may go visit the ST history but they will post here. If ST gets some money from clicks, well then that's not terrible right? They did give us a free home all those years. Yes they cut us off in a pretty fucked up way. I'm not happy with that, but the way it happened was more in the nature of hapless idiots than nefarious business masterminds. The story that this was all part of CMacs master plan to deceive us climbers is a little far fetched.
    It's not like there is any new content there. I'm not advocating copying ST content here, just links that make the experience here more coherent.
    Reason 3) We need content and posters. Especially climbing content. By making the conversation as continuous as possible, it will hopefully encourage people to keep whatever momentum they had at ST moving here. That's easier if it's clear this is the new home for continuing those ST conversations. No one wants to repeat themselves (think about having to rewrite an essay when your computer crashes when it's almost done).

    Initially I had a knee-jerk reaction to posting the links, only because it seems to detract from the here-and-nowness of Redpoint.

    However, after reading your arguments in favor, Smokey, I have to admit you make a lot of sense. Not only that, but we have a deficit of climbing content on this forum, and much of what we all loved about ST was great climbing content. I can't see where bringing the historical content of a museum into our alive and thriving forum is a bad thing.

    I agree the method of ending the ST forum was somewhat brutal, but like you pointed out, Chris and RJ kept the ship afloat for many, many years--FOR FREE--and I have no problem with a little pay-back going their way. Just my 2 cents.



  • I'm not shooting anyone gnome. I appreciate your feedback and the heads up. All I'm saying is that I'm going to have that discussion with Toby and let him decide once he hears my argument.



  • "Management here does not appreciate the links to ST."

    Really? Musta missed that. Toby, please reiterate the objection you might have (or direct me to a previous statement) to anyone linking to ST.

    "I don't either & and I am not management."

    Man, there's still a lot of ST butthurt out there. Assuming there isn't a legal or very serious practical reason for not linking to ST, why the hell shouldn't anyone link back to ST if it supports an important point or post they are making?

    ST was (is!) a climbing resource. If there is a discussion going on here that can be bolstered or deepened by pointing to another resource, then absolutely do so...especially ST.



  • When you hit the link below you'll see what "Toby " is ok with
    I'm totally comfortable about the extra steps of highlighting the thread name & searching in the search engine of your choice.
    (copy/paste, or, drop down window search)

    The 'Hot Link" is the issue, When it comes to linking to the "Mausoleum". that is the Taco, just quote the thread title

    `

    `

    I don't mind it's your lead. Climbers are going to lead. That's what is going on here. . .

    &

    I agree, linking, especially to content that a person personally added previously, elsewhere/anywhere, should be allowed.

    Smokey, What you say about other sites, & route info, Mnt Project beta, articles ... think of it !?

    The job of policing posts to try & stop linking is, in the long run,
    short-sighted & seems like it will most likely become unworkable.

    So, as you point out,
    until it is taken up for public debate
    & thrashed out to a point that it, as a topic, is as dead as the taco,
    I'm sure you are going to & are welcome to, do whatever you like
    regardless of the obvious.


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